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| About this Item | |
| Speakers | Cochran Mr Peter; Phillips Mr Ronald |
| Business | Private Members Statements |
Mr COCHRAN (Monaro) [5.30]: I raise a matter on behalf of Bernie and Linda Cabone, constituents of mine of Queanbeyan, which has arisen as a result of their experience with an organisation called the Christian City Church, which moved into the Canberra region some years ago. Under the leadership of Pastor Paul Whittaker the church approached its parishioners to construct a new church in Canberra, calling on the parishioners to raise $1.2 million for that purpose. The parishioners borrowed the $1.2 million from the State Bank using their family homes as security.
Bernie and Linda Cabone, who are average working people in my electorate – they are certainly not wealthy – offered their home as security, as did other members of the parish, as well as contributing $17,000 in cash, a considerable sum that they could ill afford. They had a very strong commitment to the church and, having pledged the security of their home, the contribution of the cash demonstrated their absolute dedication and conviction that the church would be of benefit to the parish and its parishioners.
Needless to say, the church went broke and the parishioners were left with the debt. Pastor Paul Whittaker flew the coup and moved to Sydney. The church disowned the debt, leaving the parishioners to deal with it. Pastor Whittaker should be found and called upon to explain what happened. The church has changed its name, very conveniently, and is now known as the Capital Christian Church, administered by Pastor Carl Cremer, who should also be called upon to explain why the church changed its name and why Pastor Whittaker was not called on to accept responsibility for the debt.
The debt of the church now stands at $2.4 million, but is in the name of the original church and is, therefore, the responsibility of its former parishioners. It might seem confusing to honourable members of this House, but to my constituents Bernie and Linda Cabone it is an absolute catastrophe. The security on their house to safeguard the debt was in the vicinity of $80,000. The State Bank has foreclosed on that debt, but it has been generous
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enough to reduce to debt to $60,000. Obviously the Cabones do not have that money. They are able to raise about $20,000, but they intend to use that money to fight a legal battle.
The behaviour on behalf of the church is totally unethical and immoral. I question the morality of the church, Pastor Paul Whittaker and all who were involved in the administration of the church. I call on the Minister for Police to assist me in referring this matter to the appropriate authorities for a thorough investigation to establish, first, how a church could con a bank into providing the security of people’s homes – an absolutely extraordinary state of affairs. Bernie and Linda Cabone freely admit that they made an error in judgment. They are Christian enough not to want to criticise the church, but they are very hurt and offended because they have been deserted and have been left with what could be a personal disaster.
One can only wonder what sort of people would become involved in such a ploy: people dedicated to a cause, with Christian values being deserted so as to leave them with personal tragedy. I call on the Minister for Police to assist me in raising this matter with the appropriate authorities, to have it fully investigated and to undertake whatever steps are necessary to restore to the Cabone family the security of their home.
Mr PHILLIPS (Miranda – Minister for Health) [5.35]: I thank the honourable member for Monaro for bringing this very important issue to the attention of the House. On the facts it seems to be a very sad case of a minority Christian church taking advantage of the religious dedication of a group of people who have a commitment to their God and to their Christ, by getting them to commit themselves to a huge debt. It is a sad indictment of any church that would walk away and leave its parishioners with such a debt. I hope there is a legal way in which the Government can pursue this particular organisation to expose it for what it has done and to do something about the debt. It is an issue of grave concern.
I assure the honourable member for Monaro that I will have no hesitation in drawing this matter to the attention of the Minister to ensure that an investigation is undertaken so that consideration can be given to what action can be taken.
^ That’s bullshit Dibs. I remember once in youth-group, Reuben McIntyre (Simon’s son) got up and said that giving to the church should be like giving to a sperm bank – and here comes his punch-line – you do it till it hurts.
I was in C3 long enough to know that giving beyond one’s means was considered praiseworthy, not foolhardy. Those who did this were simply taking Pringle and Co at their word.
@ Dib – “I’ve never heard any pastor of any church say to mortgage your house to do it.”
How about telling a group of leaders to not buy their house but give the money to the church? Watch this enlightening “vimeo”…
http://vimeo.com/12781609
“I don’t see why C3 should be held accountable for generous morons [...]”
So are you saying that people who go to C3 are morons? Don’t you yourself go to C3? Are you a moron, then?
“I don’t see why C3 should be held accountable for generous morons who give beyond their means.”
Well it seems that it takes morons to make morons at C3 and their colleges, according to your statement Dibs. From:
http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/c3-college-dave-sumrall-teaching-all-sorts-of-evil/
“You’re the leaders of the church. You’re the staff . You’re the students. You set the tone. What happens here is going to determine the hearts of the people later on this week. I cannot possibly emphasise to you enough that what happens here this morning is going to completely determine the outcome what happens the rest of this week.
As the leaders go so the people go. Look to the person next to you and say ‘I’m a leader’. Bible school students I taught you yesterday that if pastors want to develop a prosperous church what are the things that has to happen is that the pastor has to be generous. This is where it begins with you as a student. As a student you say ‘I don’t have much money so why should I give’. Because this is where you begin to learn generosity. This is where you begin to practice generosity. This is where you begin to understand spiritual laws of reproduction that everything reproduces after its own kind. This is where the tone is set.
Some of you saved money to buy an I-Pad. You’re gonna sow it. Notice how quiet it just got in here? Some of you, you’ve been saving money for a new car. You’re gonna re-allocate that asset and sow it. Some of you families, you’ve been saving money to buy a house. You’re gonna take that money and sow it.
And it’s gonna take a step of faith for you because it’s something you’ve never done before.” – Dave Sumrall
Considering that C3 likes to ‘train’ people up before they plant C3 churches – don’t you think that the people in the above article were conditioned to think and behave like that?
I was there when the ripping off of the carbones happened. It went like this. A charismatic and popular young preacher (Paul Whittaker) showered attention on a decent normal Aussie (Bernie) in a way that Bernie probably never had attention lavished on him before or since. It probably made Bernie and is wife feel more special than at any time in their life, chosen by god in fact! Heroes to the congregation. They were one of 12 couple who put their homes up as security so that a loan could betaken out tofinancethe building project. Yep,rather than save hard and lock it away over the yeArs until there was enough money to buy the building,the plan was to get a loan do it now and get the church people to commit huge amounts of money.
You could not have been more manipulative or deceptive about it. It was theft without conscience. And yeah I would love to know if Phil Pringle has ever contacted the carbones and offered their money back.
And whatever did happen to Paul Whittaker over the years?
Someone should sic the attack dogs from “A Current Affair” onto him.
I bet that ACA could:
a) Find him.
b) Extract some reparations from him (or, even better, from those who were previously his partners in crime).
remember I think it is a bit naive to think that Phil would give care about the Carbones.After all, he only cares about his false 2020 1,000 churches ego trip.Individuals are just numbers not people!
You have made a good point about Whittaker’as instant gratification. C3 seems to want buildings and they want them NOW! They don’t seem to care how the money is extorted out of the sheeple as long as their ego trip is instantly fulfilled.
You made a good point with “It was theft without conscience”
You also had a good question that would be interesting to follow up on-”And whatever did happen to Paul Whittaker over the years?”
Majorca perhaps …now Mrs Skase’s neighbour???
The problem is that many Christians are trusting of other Christians that they don’t think twice that someone might be taking advantage of them. The biggest struggle we have with C3 on C3ChurchWatch is to convince people that C3 is a church that does not have people’s best interest at heart. To any Christian – this would sound unbelievable. That is why it is important we let these men reveal their own motives and schemings in their sermons, articles and books. It becomes apparent after a while.
“The problem is that many Christians are trusting of other Christians that they don’t think twice that someone might be taking advantage of them.”
Jesus said “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” Sadly, many people haven’t taken that in (are you reading, Dib?).
Good point Zorro. Jesus didn’t promise to send us out amongst a whole lot of sheep where we could all be protected. He actually promised that there are wolves out there. Not only that but “wolves in sheeps clothing”! That means on the surface of it, they look exactly like a sheep, but they act exactly like a wolf. Phil dresses like a sheep, he has a ‘doctorate’ like a ‘shepherd’, he goes to church like sheep, he has a manual (Bible) like a sheep…but as you can see here on C3 churchwatch HE ACTS LIKE A WOLF! My conclusion then is : he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He even hangs out with fellow wolves and hunts in the fellow wolf packs.
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